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Cenk Ugyr X Piers Morgan Interview

Antisemitism ≠ Pro-Palestine

Background

Cenk Uygur is a Turkish-American political commentator, lawyer, and media personality. He is best known as the co-founder and host of 'The Young Turks' (TYT), an online news and commentary show. TYT was launched in 2002 and has since grown into one of the most popular and influential progressive news and opinion platforms on the internet.

(1) Double Standards & Bigotry

Cenk starts by exposing the persisting double standards against Palestinians and Muslims and how Israel’s response is purely bigotry in the rational sense.

Cenk, great to have you on the program. Thank you very much indeed for joining me.

Piers

I've been following your tweets with interest.

Piers

This week, you've been getting increasingly angry, I think it'd be fair to say.

Piers

You said, 'I'm now enormously frustrated by the U.S. and Israeli government's barbaric acts in Gaza. I will not be shy in sharing that opinion on Piers Morgan show today.'

Piers

Why are you so frustrated?

Piers

Yeah, well, honestly, I didn't expect the framing that you put on this segment, and it's framing like that that's disgusting.

Cenk

So, I don't see what this has anything to do with anti-Semitism.

Cenk

I formed Young Turks (TYT) with two Jewish friends who are some of my friends growing up. We've known each other and been brothers for over 40 years now.

Cenk

So, I think what Hamas did is disgusting. I cry for those Israeli innocent civilians.

Cenk

But do I see you guys crying for Palestinians? I mean, Chris was just on here treating it like it's no big deal because Palestinian lives don't matter.

Cenk

I think the real bigotry here is saying that Palestinians, we can kill three times as many of them already, and this is the appetizer. Netanyahu and his barbaric government haven't even started the entrée of murder and death in Mayhem they're about to do, and that's somehow okay - killing three times as many Palestinian civilians, let alone the occupation, which is bigotry by definition.

Cenk

We say that everyone in the world can defend themselves, can have their own state, can have sovereignty, except the Palestinians.

Cenk

And the reasoning behind that is that Palestinians are what? The idea is that they are savages and that Muslims are too violent and cannot control themselves, so they must be occupied for 56 brutal, disgusting years.

Cenk

So I've had enough of the bigotry against Muslims and Palestinians, and I need you to speak out against that instead of covering every outrageous, atrocious action of the right-wing government of Israel and going, 'Oh, it's anti-Semitism.'

Cenk

(2) Nullifying Anti-Semitism Claims

Cenk continues by highlighting that this has nothing to do with anti-Semitism, which is another global problem. It’s rational for anyone (e.g., Palestinians) not to sympathize with their oppressors.

No, when there is global anti-Semitism, there's anti-Semitism here in this country. Two synagogues were shot up in Pittsburgh and in Southern California.

Cenk

We fight against that all the time. But then, whenever Israel is criticized, you people go, 'Oh no, it's anti-Semitism.'

Cenk

No, there's real anti-Semitism. Instead of attacking that, all you guys ever do is hide behind the veil of anti-Semitism.

Cenk

Do you know why Palestinians might not like Israelis? Because they've been oppressed for 56 straight years.

Cenk

I hear you, and let me respond.

Piers

A, I'm not 'you guys.' I don't think I fit into any neat fit on this issue at all.

Piers

B, I've actually covered the story, I think, more fairly than most people. I've had many pro-Palestinian voices. I've given a huge platform for. They've been getting enormous audiences from Bassam Yousef to others, and I've done that quite deliberately because I think these voices are important to be heard, including yours.

Piers

I certainly wasn't accusing you, by the way, or your organization of anti-Semitism.

Piers

(3) Condemning Hamas

As Piers starts the subject of Hamas and the barbaric actions that they have done, Cenk agrees with him and states that he is even more made because it is a reason for the bigotry against Muslims.

I just think I have found it, as somebody who's always identified as liberal myself, very dispiriting to see people who call themselves liberals whose instant response, it seemed to me, to one of the worst terror attacks we've ever seen, was to immediately side with the place where these attacks have been launched from.

Piers

Now, I don't tar all Palestinians with the brush of being Hamas at all. And, in fact, the sooner Hamas is out of there, the better for the Palestinian people and the world.

Piers

But I just think the only human response you can have is, as you did, by the way, to your credit, it was disgusting what happened on October the 7th.

Piers

Now, the question then becomes, what is a proportionate response by Israel, not just to the terror attacks of October the 7th, but obviously, there is now a huge ongoing escalation in what has been, as you rightly say, a 56-year war, effectively, in varying degrees over that period.

Piers

And that's where I think I'm struggling to see how a ground invasion by Israel, with all that that would entail, particularly mass deaths of Palestinian civilians, how that is going to do anything for any peace or resolution to this. I think it will have the opposite effect.

Piers

Yes, so let's say you, one at a time.

Cenk

First of all, as you rightly point out on The Young Turks (TYT), we covered the atrocious actions of Hamas right from the get-go and condemned it as fully as anyone can possibly condemn it.

Cenk

Because not only are they killing those poor innocent Israelis who didn't do anything, those little babies and grandmothers, it's disgusting what they did.

Cenk

But on top of that, they've ruined the Palestinian cause. They've burned the moral high ground to cinders. And then on top of that, they smear all people of Muslim background like myself and unleash this bigotry of anti-Muslim bigotry throughout the world that I'm sick of.

Cenk

So, screw Hamas and their barbarism.

Cenk

(4) Condemning Israel’s Response

Cenk demonstrates how illicit and terror-like has Israel’s response to Hamas been.

Okay, now, in terms of a proper reaction, yes, you need to get those hostages out.

Cenk

So now let's look at what it... I'm going to suggest what to actually do. I'm going to be constructive.

Cenk

But first, let's look at the unconstructive solution that Israel had, dropping bombs on residential buildings.

Cenk

Fifty ambulances have been hit, and ten out of 25 hospitals don't operate anymore. The incubators are about to run out of energy. There are 45 babies that might die today.

Cenk

The parents, I just read on CNN, are writing the names of the kids on their calves, on their legs, so that if they are killed in a bombing and they're mutilated, they could find their bodies.

Cenk

Imagine writing the name of your child on their legs so that you could find them in the rubble after Israel or any government drops a bomb on them.

Cenk

(5) Unseen Reality of Bombs

Cenk sheds light on how terrible it is for someone to die from a bomb. It’s equivalent to incinerating people alive… the other option could be having the person’s brain explode or more slowly dying below tons of mass after having it drop on you.

I need the West to understand something: bombs kill people. And do you know how they kill people? They incinerate them alive, or their heads explode.

Cenk

So, what happened in Israel was a disaster and disgusting. But you have to be equally honest and equally outraged at the immorality of incinerating babies and grandmothers and aunts and uncles, which is what we're doing right now.

Cenk

America cannot keep sending aid for death and destruction. Enough of the occupation, end it today. End it today. It's monstrous.

Cenk

Let me... a, I completely understand your passion and your anger. I completely get this.

Piers

I, like that you want to see some resolution at the end of this horror that we're witnessing.

Piers

How do you get rid of Hamas if you don't do it the way Israel is currently doing it?

Piers

How do you actually eradicate what has become a nihilistic, ISIS-style terror group who've quite deliberately, in my estimation, committed an outrage of such appalling scale that they knew that this would go Israel into this kind of response?

Piers

So, why they did that, what is motivating it, who might be putting them up to it, who's helped them prepare for this, these are all questions we don't know the answers to yet.

Piers

But it seems to me that Israel could, if it's not careful, be being lured into a massive trap here.

Piers

And I hope that is not the case.

Piers

(6) Establishing a Proportionate Response

Cenk proposes a response that would have been far more proportional and relates it to a mission that took place successfully in reality.

But I'm curious, how do you get rid of Hamas if you don't do it the way Israel is currently doing it, albeit with horrific collateral damage in the face of thousands of innocent Palestinians being caught up in the bombing.

Piers

So, let me give you a short-term answer, a long-term answer, and a lot of people are not going to like these, but these are realistic ways to minimize civilian casualties.

Cenk

You do what America did with the Osama Bin Laden raid.

Cenk

We didn't go drop a nuke on Pakistan. We didn't go destroy 6,000 residential buildings in the middle of Pakistan. We sent in Special Forces.

Cenk

Is it more dangerous for the Special Forces? Of course, that's the point of Special Forces, to try to find the hostages.

Cenk

(7) Israel’s Response is a Failure in Terms of Hostages

Cenk demonstrates that, even when viewed from an Israeli standpoint, Israel's response achieves the opposite of its intended goal towards hostages.

Does it look like Israel is trying to find the hostages? If I have a family member that's a hostage, I'm disgusted by what Netanyahu is doing.

Cenk

Now, how do you know they're not in the buildings you're dropping bombs on? How do you know they're not in the tunnels you're dropping bombs on? How do you know they're not in the hospitals you're dropping bombs on?

Cenk

So, if you want the hostages rescued, every rational human being can agree, this is not the way to do it.

Cenk

This is the way to do death and destruction for the sake of death and destruction. It's collective punishment.

Cenk

It's genocide against Palestinians, and the world has to speak out.

Cenk

So, my way is not pleasant either. It involves a lot of folks dying on both sides. I understand that. Those are super hard choices.

Cenk

But go find Hamas. Go find the hostages.

Cenk

(8) Israel’s Response is a Failure Because it is Terrorism

Cenk establishes that what Israel has been doing satisfies the definition of terrorism.

Go rescue them instead of indiscriminately killing. After killing, let's be honest, when you drop a bomb and a kid's head explodes, and a grandmother is incinerated, that is terrorism.

Cenk

Killing three times as many civilians as Hamas is terrorism. And it is the same if it is done by a government.

Cenk

Send as many special forces as you've got. Look, send in whatever you've got to actually do the job at hand instead of what Netanyahu is doing, which is to kill these people, to what? Send a message.

Cenk

Think about how unrealistic that is.

Cenk

Think about why his method has a 0% chance of working.

Cenk

(9) Israel’s Response is a Failure Because Palestinians Can’t do Anything

Cenk establishes that if the response still fails if it is supposed to make Palestinians turn against Hamas.

How are the Palestinians supposed to rise up against Hamas? How would they prove they're against Hamas?

Cenk

Hamas ended all elections. Hamas ended democracy.

Cenk

So how are the Palestinians supposed to cry uncle?

Cenk

They're already crying uncle, but it's never enough for the bloodthirsty Netanyahu.

Cenk

No, more death of Palestinians, more babies killed. That's what his answer is.

Cenk

(10) Comment on the U.S. Response

Cenk comments on how current governance of the U.S. uses money to worsen the situation while not even accomplishing that efficiently.

The United States of America, I'm running for president here. There's no way in the world I would allow this, sending $105 billion.

Cenk

And it doesn't even go to Israel, Ukraine, or Taiwan. It goes to the defense contractors that bribe these greedy American politicians and get most of that money.

Cenk

(11) Long-term Solution is the Two-State Solution

Cenk proposes that a long-term solution is a two-state solution where borders guarantee no further conflicts.

So, the long-term answer is the 1967 borders and the biggest walls you've ever seen in your entire life. And no one's allowed to cross on either side, but the Palestinians get their state. It is unconscionable for them not to get their state.

Cenk

And if you're a moral person, you, of course, believe that the Palestinians are not the only people in the world that cannot govern themselves. If you say that, you are, by definition, being bigoted and racist.

Cenk

We have to have a two-state solution immediately.

Cenk

If 56 years of occupation and brutalizing these people is not enough, is 57 years going to be enough? Is 156 years going to be enough? I'm asking Israel, not out of hate, but out of love.

Cenk

(12) Jews Should Not be Happy

Cenk emphasizes that what Israel does makes it even worse for the reputation of Jews around the world.

So many of my friends that I grew up with are Jewish.

Cenk

This is not good for them. This is not good for anybody.

Cenk

Please look into your hearts. Look and be the moral people that I know you can be.

Cenk

I've been to Passover dinners where you pray for your oppressors. Now, it breaks my heart. But I've got to tell you, you've got to pray for those you are oppressing.

Cenk

And to say that you are not oppressing the Palestinians after brutalizing them for 56 long years, you're kidding yourself. And as a friend and an ally, I'm trying to get you to wake up and snap out of this trance.

Cenk

You cannot keep doing this. It is ruining your moral fiber.

Cenk

Cenk Uygur, thank you very much indeed for joining me.

Piers

I greatly appreciate it. I'm sorry it was your first appearance on this program under these circumstances, but it won't be your last.

Piers

I think you're an important voice in this, and I do appreciate you coming on the show.

Piers

Thank you very much. Thank you.

Piers